家中種植新科技

這是在剛完結的Google I/O 2011 內發表的概念設計
大概係關於未來在家種植如何佩合雲端技術之類
這正與我的研究方向有一點點相似,  請問大家點睇呢?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKRtufQ0Bk

唔知係咪黎...無泥、無水、無植物....我唔識睇...

我諗主要都係家居種植(urban ariculture),
你可以睇下呢份o野,不過比較舊http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/southeast/documents/pdf/urbanagr.pdf

另外,我其實唔係好明佢個cloud computing個作用有幾大....
其實係o米好似一o的monitoring system咁,佢幫你mon住個種植情況再調較燈光,淋水等?

The topic is a bit too technical for me to write about in Chinese; will switch to English, hope you don't mind.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the cost-reducing factor with the use of LED lights. They're still very expensive at the moment, especially if you want the precise photosynthetic wavelengths for red and blue. I know that several LED manufacturers have put out new photosynthetic red diodes in recent years, but prices are still pretty high the last time I checked (a few months ago). For lettuce and salad greens, I would probably use high-output fluorescent lamps myself, as they're still cheaper than LED and light requirements aren't very high compared to, say, tomatoes.

This growing system also uses a large amount of space for what I assume is the water/hydroponic nutrient tank (relative to the growing area), possibly to save time on the user's part and to allow for more automation with the computerised system. However, I wonder how feasible this would be in HK, where space is limited for the large majority of households.

As well, I'm not sure how cloud data would be useful in growing vegetables where so many factors are involved, i.e. temperature, ambient light, humidity, air circulation, gaseous exchange (CO2 and oxygen), bugs and diseases etc. If one were to monitor and control all of these factors in a home environment, the equipment required would cost way more than buying commercially-grown lettuce from a store (the home environment doesn't allow for economy of scale as would a commercial farm). Without controlling these factors, the chances of plants surviving in this system aren't any higher than plants grown in existing home/hobbyist systems on the market.

As a passive hydroponics home grower in HK, I can't see anything new that this system can offer me. It's really just an LED lamp, a pot, a pump and a tank, and not particularly space- and cost-saving for that matter.

Other than hydroponic, will you try aquaponic which I think it's more environmentally sounded and interesting

42ndfloor 發表於 2011-5-17 14:34
The topic is a bit too technical for me to write about in Chinese; will switch to English, hope you  ...

thanks for your comment. i agree with most of your concern.
But on my understanding their project's focus on a new form of urban farming. Facilitate the home farming experience in order to have a better harvest.
Cloud data base seems quite stupid in this presentation, but you have mentioned there are many factors in the actual planting experiences, i thought those problems can be solved up the power of cloud. although each situation could be very complicated, i believe their are no completely unique condition. cloud data would be many small puzzles.

anyway i do think this design is quite rough and doesn't consider some important human aspects, but i like their concept and appreciate their motivation.
btw, don't worry about the technical aspect, this project just a futuristic concept, the hardware would adjust by the technical and social development in future.
Future is dramatics, right?

回復 白水 的帖子

I feel that their concept is mainly focus on the clouding computing rather than the urban farming (Actually, the video doesn’t provide any information of its function, it’s just my personal interpretation). Since urban farming is not a “new” concept, it have been demonstrated over the world (of course it may be new and challenging in Hong Kong)

In my understanding, the overall reasons/advantages for urban farming are,
1.        Food safety
2.        Environmental concern (carbon footprint, food mileage)
3.        Food security

Agriculture is a combination of science and art, unlike other manufacturing process in factory, it is a very dynamic process. Of course you may say that there is no. of hydroponic, aquaponic or even aeroponic system, which could control every parameter and grow “good” produce, but the inputs are tremendous, just like what Mr. 42 floor said, the carbon footprint is definitely higher than you buy the food in supermarket.

As those technologies are not sustainable, that’s why there is a global trend towards organic farming, biodynamic farming, natural farming and permaculture etc……

By the way, the concept is interesting and I must say that the cloud computing is very useful and I am also the fans/user of cloud computing. However, in agricultural area, it is better to focus on other aspect other than just for control and monitoring~

回復 42ndfloor 的帖子

香港都可以做到,不過要有天台lor, 其實只要o係design果時攪得好o的就可以了,
再唔係就set過大型system向高空發展,不過要好似你咁,咁有$$$$ 先得lor~

Just to clarify, I understand that cloud data could help users come up with solutions (i.e. the thinking part); it's the implementation of the solutions that I cannot see happening in a home growing context because of the expensive equipment required, e.g. devices for measuring fertiliser/nutrient solution strength and pH, PAR light meters, humidifiers/dehumidifiers, air-conditioners etc. Most people simply wouldn't be able to afford or be willing to pay that much just to grow some lettuce.

What do you consider "new" in this "new form of urban farming"? How is the concept different from this, a widely-available commercial product in North America, for instance? http://www.google.com/search?q=aerogarden+3&tbm=isch

If it is not the "technical aspect" that the project is concerned with, then the only thing left is the product/experience design and the marketing aspect, both of which I personally have doubts about.

回復 owlcyr 的帖子

I believe that growing vegetables at home in HK, no matter what method one uses, will still have a lower carbon footprint than the food we buy at supermarkets, considering that most of it is imported from China and elsewhere.

Also, in defense of hydroponics and aquaponics, I believe that it can be sustainable if systems are well-designed and resources are used prudently with an emphasis on minimising waste and nutrient run-off. (On the other hand, overuse of organic pesticides can be almost as dangerous as synthetic pesticides to wildlife and ecological balance.)

回復 42ndfloor 的帖子

I believe that growing vegetables at home in HK, no matter what method one uses, will still have a lower carbon footprint than the food we buy at supermarkets, considering that most of it is imported from China and elsewhere. <----Definitely yes~

I agree with your point that organic farming is not environmental sounds if there is some malpractice like overuse of fertilizers and pesticides ete. And I also agree that a careful design is critical in all system.
That’s why I always keep on telling people that organic farming is not just the substitution of approved input materials. It is the replacement of a treatment approach (e.g using natural pesticide to treat the pest/disease) with a process approach (careful design like intercropping, growing cover crop etc….) to create a balanced system of plant and animal interactions.

Just share some of my experiences, I could harvest some good vegetables without using organic pesticide even in the field. (I have use BT in last winter as there is too much pest last winter), so I just query why people growing their vegetable at home will need to use pesticide and some of them are the most toxic one even the China’s farmer is fading out……….

I think the main advantages of hydroponic are high yield, the problem of pest is much smaller and can be used in places where farmlands are inadequate.

The sector in hydroponic growing so rapid in these years and many new systems come out which have some improvement in nutrient recycling and pathogen removal issue etc.

Frankly speaking, I prefer growing the plant in soil rather in water (provided that you have the roof or balcony for it) as I am a lazy person so I would like the natural to do most of the works for me (those microorganism in the soil and the solar energy etc….)

1. Input is higher in hydroponic system, like the nutrient solutions (I know it’s very expensive to have a solutions that contain the entire essential element), energy consumption (the pump and lighting) etc.

2. The technical requirements is higher in term of the establishment and maintenance

As discuss with some 版友 before, I just have very little experiences in this area (as I have chances to travel around to see the large scale system but I have never build my own system in my place like you guy…..), so please keep on share your progress and experience in home hydroponic system.

By the way, have you ever heard of “permaculture”? I think you could use some of the idea from it in designing your system to make it more sustainable and interesting.

Just share an eco village in Queensland which used permaculture concept to design and operate.
http://crystalwaters.org.au/

回復 owlcyr 的帖子

You're right, we don't really need strong pesticides, as long as we grow vegetables that are in season and suitable for our climate. But modern humans are greedy and we always want to push the envelope. (That's why I still have several tomato plants on the balcony at this time of year!) We want to eat winter vegetables in the summer, and farmers know we are willing to pay for out-of-season vegetables, so using heavy pesticides is very tempting for them because it's easy money. So it comes down to how much we are willing to do away with these luxuries.

I'm lazy too, and the passive no-pump no-electricity hand-watered hydroponic system I use now is just right for me. The main difference in everyday maintenance work between the system I use and growing in soil is that the fertilisers I use are water-soluble and added to the substrate together with the water every time, as opposed to using just water and adding fertilisers periodically for soil-growing. Beneficial microorganisms live in hydroponic nutrient as well, and AFAIK mostly they are the same types as the ones found in soil.

My understanding of permaculture is only in the general sense of designing a system allowing interdependence between plants and sometimes animals. It's a very interesting approach but hard to fully utilise on a smaller scale like my balcony. I use my tomato plants to shade the weaker seedlings/cuttings from sun and wind, but I suppose that's not entirely permaculture! Aquaponics uses similar ideas, with plants feeding the fish and fish waste feeding the plants, and this I definitely want to try one day.

個人分享:
睇完段片,覺得只係一件種植既輔助工具
賣點似乎係環保,方便同埋快,加多小小DIY同customize咁....

下面係一個簡陋既diagram

client(smartphone,maybe webpage or some tool)(下載,監察,控制燈光等等)<----> internet(cloud computing) <--->  android 系統(farmbox) -> 控制燈光(白,紅,藍)
                                                                                                                                                                                (想像一下種植版既手機)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     ^
                                                                                                                                                                              環境數據收集 (溫度,濕度及其他)           

感覺,其實都只係用android系統作為控制,所謂用cloud只係將device數據傳送去client,或者有其他用途未開發到/未公開
同埋....講到尾,幫google宣傳android :/
實際作用......暫時覺得無...

如有錯漏,歡迎指教